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GDPR

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Phil Dart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil Dart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 10:01pm
There is already a separate email sign-up on my site, but you're saying that if a signed up and voluntarily opted in prospect who knows they are already on the mailing list, doesn't bother to tick the opt-in box at the time of their first order, they are inadvertently unsubscribing themselves.

If, for the sake of argument you accept for the time being that opt-in re-iteration with every order is not a legal requirement, would the introduction of an extra page solve the problem?

basket > invoice/delivery details > confirm/edit all the details then we'll let you pay (checkout)

By the time they get to the third page, RC will know who they are. It is, after all, only their email address you need in order to identify them. Is it not then possible to present tailored tick boxes on the third page instead of on the same page as their personal details? Or if not, at least be able to relate an existing contact to the fact that they are already opted in.

A three page system is the way a lot of other carts operate, even before GDPR.

The thing is Simon, I am RC's greatest fan as you may already know. Your functionality is excellent, your support in the form of James and yourself is outstanding, and I could go on. But, in the format that you describe above, the inadvertent opt-out solution currently in place is, I'm sorry to have to tell you, quite probably a deal breaker for me, which with over 1000 products in my product manager is quite a statement to make and quite an undertaking to have to migrate. However, given that GDPR makes it difficult enough as it is, the inevitable result of the current a solution is a diminishing contact list, not a growing one, which even the most enticing and cunning wording for the opt-in box is never going to overcome.

Please, please, please find a solution for this.

Edited by Phil Dart - 16 May 2018 at 10:23pm
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rich-erich View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rich-erich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:00am
This situation seems bonkers.

If I as a customer have opted in to receive marketing emails then I would expect this to be the case until I unsubscribe. This is very different from having to opt in every time I make an order.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Support Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:12am
Hi,

I think the best answer might be just to word the checkbox differently "opt-in to our email list if you have not opted in already". - then we would have an option in the back end to ignore the checkbox if they have already opted in.

I have no idea whether that's allowed under GDPR as it gives no opportunity to opt out, I will leave that to you and your legal advisers to decide (who all seem to say different things).

Failing all that - take a look at some other websites and find one that works how you would like it to work and we will take a look and see if we can implement that.


Many Thanks

Simon

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rich-erich View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rich-erich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:15am
Simon, that sounds a good idea.

Also this may be relevant and think your video may be a bit misleading as it seems to suggest that to comply with GDPR we have to only contact customers that have opted in; so send them an optin in email and then remove anyone who has not opted in. However there is a soft optin:

The term ‘soft opt-in’ is sometimes used to describe the rule about existing customers. The idea is that if an individual bought something from you recently, gave you their details, and did not opt out of marketing messages, they are probably happy to receive marketing from you about similar products or services even if they haven’t specifically consented. However, you must have given them a clear chance to opt out – both when you first collected their details, and in every message you send.

The soft opt-in rule means you may be able to email or text your own customers, but it does not apply to prospective customers or new contacts (eg from bought-in lists). It also does not apply to non-commercial promotions (eg charity fundraising or political campaigning).
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Phil Dart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil Dart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:33am
If they opted in previously and they don't get de-listed for failing to tick the box a second time, that's all I'm asking. You have provided the functionality to evidence their opt in, and based on my understanding of GDPR I am more than happy to take responsibility.

As to how other carts do it, did you read my post from yesterday evening?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Support Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:34am
Hi Rich,

If you decide to rely on soft opt-in then you could probably ignore everything about GDPR in RomanCart and carry on as you are. All other methods are opt in anyway.

Most of the information I have read say that that is no longer allowed, however there's plenty that says that it is!
It's also worth reading about 'Legitimate Interests' with regard to GDPR.

This is why it is very important for me to stress that it's up to you to implement GDPR how you want to as we don't give any legal advice. As a data processor we have out own obligations as laid out in our new terms and conditions and privacy policy.

Also note that we are simply providing the tools. As mentioned earlier we have many merchants not affected at all by GDPR so all the existing functionality is not going to change.

Many Thanks
Simon

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Support Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:40am
Hi Phil,

An extra page would lead to less sales, so it's not something we'd do. RomanCart is all about trying to make as few steps to purchase as possible.
That's why the Braintree payment method is good as the card fields are on the checkout page, taking away even more steps and it sounds like we might have more similar methods to add in the future.

If you rely on soft opt-in as Rich Implies above then you could change nothing if that's what you and your legal advisors agree on.

Finally - the evidence for opt-in from RomanCart may not be good enough anyway - apparently you need a screenshot of the person opting in for admissible evidence - which is impossible to obtain. Some parts of this are ridiculous.

Many Thanks
Simon



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Phil Dart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil Dart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:36am
I understand what you're saying Simon, and thanks for all you're doing. In the short term though, can you just clarify how the opt-in button will affect existing opted in contacts please.

My understanding is that now, (with suitable wording) an unticked box will no longer inadvertently unsubsribe if that person is already voluntarily opted in. Is that correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Support Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 12:10pm
Hi,

Phil, I think you should take a look at the sort opt-in regs and 'Legitimate Interests' with regard to the checkbox on the checkout page.

Further to rich-erich's comments above, i'm not sure opt-in is needed on the checkout.


All the opt in regs seem to be more for the marketing lists you have where you don't have opt-in consent.

An unticked opt-in box will unsubscribe currently - this has not been changed and as above i'm not sure such a change is really necessary.

Many Thanks
Simon
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rich-erich View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rich-erich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 12:12pm
Getting confused now Simon.

If someone has already opted in I don't want it so if they susbequently checkout they become opted out if they don't opt in again. It doesn't make sense at all.
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