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Gift Vouchers that really work

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Support James View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Support James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 1:41pm
Hi,

Thanks for the feedback, if we had a checkbox on the promotions screen (when you are setting up a promotion) which allows the promotion to also give free shipping would this meet your requirements?

Thanks

James
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softap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote softap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 1:52pm
James, this would work for me (although not ideal), but somehow I would need to make sure that people outside the UK could not use that promotion. I'm OK with giving away free shipping to UK customers who have a voucher, but not overseas ones!

Best wishes
Andy Rigby
www.christianbits.co.uk
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Red View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 3:19pm
No not for us, you are still trying to do a work around this.
We do not give free shipping at all it would cost us to much, a lot of our customers are overseas.
It needs to work for all sales and so deduct the final total for the sale which includes the price for Goods, Postage and VAT so we can offer a gift value of up to 20, 25, 30 etc so the customer knows what value they can spend without being expected to pay any extra for postage or Tax.
Red
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beng27 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beng27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 9:04pm
No.

As Red says, you are just trying to do a work-round! But why?

Its simple. We just need a normal voucher that operates - like every other gift voucher in the universe - on the TOTAL of the order, including shipping.

Why is this so impossible to do? ( I am trying to be sympathetic, though failing through frustration at this point - sorry :-)

Seriously, can you explain what the technical problem with this is? Why CANT we have a drop-down that choses a discount applied to the whole order inc shipping? In what way would this 'break' the logical flow of the checkout process?
The Best Vegetables for the Kitchen Garden
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Support Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 9:21pm
Hi,
There's a number of problems which we need to work out.

Firstly we are working on sending the items to PayPal when PayPal is used as a Payment option.
I'm not sure if they would support this, with most carts promotional codes create a negative value line item.

Other problems are things like tax.
If you sell 4 items for 50 each with a different tax rate, then use a 55 voucher. The remainder is 5, but what is the tax on that and what does the 5 left relate to.

If you have examples of what other systems do - showing tax breakdown and how the promotion is applied, please email us the details

It would be great to add it but we need to understand how it should work.

Many Thanks
Support
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rscass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rscass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 9:52pm
Hi Support -

There is a guide on HMRC's website for UK businesses.

If you sell a 10.00 gift voucher for 10.00, the voucher is not subject to VAT.

When redeemed, all VAT rates and any shipping with apportioned rates (if say the sale included standard and zero rated goods) are left as is and the voucher is treated as if it were cash being handed over.

The URL is here: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/charging/discounts-etc.htm

In essence, for VAT purposes, the idea of a gift voucher is straightforward, provided it is sold at face value and not for example sold at a discount.

If added to Romancart, the feature would have to be specific and not just another promo code. Perhaps the ability to apply a tax rate to a gift voucher could be permanently disabled?

Richard.
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softap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote softap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 9:54pm
I can't see why you think these problems are new, when Romancart has allowed promo codes for years? It already correctly re-apportions the tax if you apply a promo discount code. And surely Paypal just gets sent a total to pay, rather than a list of the line items involved, so why would Paypal be a problem?

The existing promo code discount system works fine - it just needs to be able to work on the whole order total (i.e. including shipping) rather than on the goods-only total.

Best wishes

Andy Rigby
www.christianbits.co.uk

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beng27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 10:00pm
Thanks very much for explaining. It is really helpful to be able to have a dialogue about this.

I think many of the problems might be because you are still thinking of this as a promotional coupon type of thing, not a voucher.

So, just to explain:

Customer Fred buys a gift voucher code for 55 and sends it to their friend Harry

Harry makes a cart of goods.

The total inc shipping and tax will be either:
A) less than the value of their voucher
B) exactly the value of their voucher
C) more than the value of their voucher

In both case A and B, then Harry is not billed anything, The total owing is 0. So they do not pass to any payment processor be it PayPal or anyone else. (Tax and shipping calculations are exactly as normal for that basket.)

In case A, there is spare value in the voucher, but this is discarded. Harry loses any unspent voucher. It would be nice to point this out by pop-up, but this keeps it all simple - avoids all sorts of grief for RC and the merchant in tracking part-vouchers. There are no (sales) tax issues on the discarded part as it has not been spent. The merchant will pay corporation tax on it as it is a profit, but that is not RCs problem. There are no issues with payment gateways as no payment is made or processed.

In case C, then Harry is billed for the difference between the TOTAL value of the basket (inc tax and shipping) and the voucher. He can pay this extra by any active payment method, just like always.

Now this last bit is the bit you say is a problem with PayPal specifically. But I genuinely don't understand how this can be a problem, because this ALREADY happens with the current model - if I issue a voucher for 10 off and someone spends 20 , you bill them for the difference. So how can it work now - but not if you apply the voucher to the total inc shipping and tax?

I still wonder if many of the stumbling blocks are because RC is conceptually thinking of this as a variant of a promotional code or coupon (apply to items), but really its a gift voucher (applies to a cart total).

If you discard any preconceived ideas, and think of how an amazon gift voucher works, it will be clearer what we all would like. (But for simplicity we will discard any unused part of the voucher, as tracking that would be hideous)

thank-you

Ben
The Best Vegetables for the Kitchen Garden
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rscass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rscass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 10:00pm
Hi Andy,

There is a tax issue because the goods are not just being discounted.

If you apply a 20% discount to a 100 sale, then the VAT is worked out on a gross value of 80.

If the same 100 item was paid for with 80 paypal and 20 gift voucher, the VAT element is based on 100 not 80, a difference of 3.33.

Richard.
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rscass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rscass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 10:03pm
It only goes pear-shaped if you sell the VAT-less 20.00 gift voucher for 15.00!
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