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GDPR

Printed From: RomanCart.com Forum
Category: RomanCart
Forum Name: Announcements
Forum Description: Important RomanCart News
URL: http://forums.romancart.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13669
Printed Date: 14 August 2022 at 2:05pm


Topic: GDPR
Posted By: Support
Subject: GDPR
Date Posted: 02 May 2018 at 5:06pm
Hi,

Please note that our terms and conditions have been updated with a new section on GDPR at https://www.romancart.com/sell-more/action/tsandcs.htm" rel="nofollow - https://www.romancart.com/sell-more/action/tsandcs.htm

We will have more information on GDPR by the end of this week.

Many Thanks
Support




Replies:
Posted By: Josiah.W
Date Posted: 03 May 2018 at 4:54pm
Hi,

Thanks for the update. We are currently reviewing our privacy policy. We have set out what personally identifiable information is collected during checkout, but would like to let users know that they will also be subject to RomanCart's Privacy Policy when they go through to the cart. Would https://www.romancart.com/sell-more/action/tsandcs.htm" rel="nofollow - https://www.romancart.com/sell-more/action/tsandcs.htm be the best URL to refer users to, or will you be setting up a separate privacy policy page?

Regards,
Josiah


Posted By: rich-erich
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 11:10am
1. Can you please tell me the process whereby if a customer asks for what information RC holds for them we can export it and send to them. eg personal details and order history. For example I don't see an easy way to go into the CRM and export data for one customer.

2. If a customer ask us to delete their data that RC holds do we do it or do we request you do it?

Thanks


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 11:15am
Hi,

To delete contact information, locate the contact on the CRM and click on delete which removes that record.
For sales information do a search for that persons email address on the sales manager and you can print off invoices of all the orders.

Note that you have a legal obligation in the UK to store sales records for a minimum of 7 years.

Refer to article 17 of the GDPR for more details on the requirements for deleting data.

Many Thanks
Support



Posted By: rich-erich
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 11:28am
Ok, thanks. You have a good understanding of this so does that mean if a customers wants their information deleted we are not allowed to do it (if before 7 years). ie we can delete from the CRM but the SM is still holding the actual sales records - which we can't delete.

Re the legal obligation, is it lawful to use you as our storage facility - ie not to for us to store directly.


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 11:36am
Hi,

We can't give legal advice.
You would need to refer to legal advisers for advice in how the GDPR relates to your business and your own obligations.
There is a lot of information at https://www.eugdpr.org" rel="nofollow - https://www.eugdpr.org

To clarify, there is no legal obligation to keep information on RomanCart.

Many Thanks
Support



Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 2:46pm
Hi,

More information is now available at https://www.romancart.com/gdpr" rel="nofollow - https://www.romancart.com/gdpr
This includes links to our new privacy policy and terms and conditions.

Many Thanks
Support


Posted By: Josiah.W
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 2:52pm
Excellent, thanks for your help!

Regards,
Josiah


Posted By: rich-erich
Date Posted: 10 May 2018 at 11:37am
RomanCart Ebay Marketplace: at the moment a customer buying from this has a Y automatically added to them to accept marketing in the CRM. This would be against GDPR terms so can you tell me how RC will deal with this.


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 10 May 2018 at 3:03pm
Hi,
I don't think there is anything on ebay which facilitates this, so we will have to add an option for how you want it to be set.
More info here when it's available.

Many Thanks
Support


Posted By: rich-erich
Date Posted: 10 May 2018 at 3:10pm
If all the payment processing bypasses RC then I think it should be set a an N by default.

I don't know GDP well enough yet to know if we are allowed to subsequently contact them to ask if they would like to receive marketing emails. If it is the case then in the CRM it would be good to be able to create a list for market place orders.


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 10 May 2018 at 3:12pm
Hi,
You are not allowed to contact an email address to ask if they want to receive marketing emails from you.

However - of course as they are buying from you you are clearly allowed to communicate with them via email with regard to the purchase.

Many Thanks
Support


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 10 May 2018 at 3:13pm
Further to last post - agreed - it would be good to select a list that they go in.
Many Thanks
Support


Posted By: EddieODG
Date Posted: 10 May 2018 at 3:15pm
My sales on Romancart also used to automatically have a "Y" set for marketing. It appears that from 1st March it has been set to "N".

Is there a way I can change this back, I am not sure where the setting would be, or having changed anything myself to bring about the change, and was thinking it may have been done for GDPR compliance by Romancart, but the above suggests that I was wrong in that thinking.

If you can advise I would be grateful.


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 10 May 2018 at 3:17pm
Hi,
Set your marketing preferences at 'tools'/'options'/'marketing'

Many Thanks
Support


Posted By: EddieODG
Date Posted: 10 May 2018 at 3:20pm
Thanks for the quick reply.

I see there are three choices, to set as no marketing, or to ask customer whether to opt in or opt out. That appears to be different as all my customers used to be opted in by default.

Am I wrong in thinking the options have changed, and if so were we informed that this would happen?

Is there a place I can add text regarding the opt out / in, to advise what sort of marketing the customer may receive?


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 10 May 2018 at 3:25pm
Hi,
Please see http://forums.romancart.com/important-gdpr-changes_topic13649.html" rel="nofollow - http://forums.romancart.com/important-gdpr-changes_topic13649.html
These changes are as a result of GDPR.
See http://www.romancart.com/gdpr" rel="nofollow - www.romancart.com/gdpr for more details.
Edit any text in the cart to 'configure'/'change any text'

Many Thanks
Support


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 11 May 2018 at 2:51pm
My understanding is that we need to contact each customer on the CRM who is currently set to EP=Y, to ask them if they wish to continue receiving marketing. In theory after sending that out, all contacts should be EP=N until they re=confirm.

Is there a way to set to N universally, and is there a template code or some other clever way to automatically re-instate them to Y when they respond? In other words, in the same way as they can unsubcribe from a newsletter though RC, can they re-subscribe?


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 11 May 2018 at 3:01pm
Hi,

We will be adding functionality to do this on Monday.

Many Thanks
Support


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 11 May 2018 at 3:04pm
Great news - thanks.


Posted By: EddieODG
Date Posted: 11 May 2018 at 3:07pm
Thank you for the information -

You say "Edit any text in the cart to 'configure'/'change any text'

Can you confirm this, as when I go to "configure" there is no subpage "change any text"


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 9:19am
OK, I can see a universal set to EP=N function now - thanks for adding that, but still struggling to find a way to opt them back in again. Do you have a fix in the wings for that please?


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 9:23am
Hi,

A screencast is being uploaded about this in the next hour, check the gdpr page a bit later on.

When you say 'opt them back in again' as you will have seen from your inbox no doubt, you have to email your entire list asking if they want to opt in to receive emails from you.

Again - it's important to manage expectations on this. A good read rate is 10-20% so if you send 10000 emails 1000-2000 people will read it, out of that only a percentage will opt in, so out of 10000 email addresses you will end up with maybe 500 you can email - depending on how loyal your contact base is and how old the list is.

The screencast shows how to do this (which needs to be done before the 25th May)

Many Thanks
Support




Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 9:37am
Thanks - I'll look in again a bit later on

Yes, whilst GDPR sets out to clean up the spammers and kerb big brother, it also serves to destroy a legitimate marketing tool used by responsibly by small businesses.


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 9:59am
Hi,
See https://youtu.be/U9qYWNh4SjI" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/U9qYWNh4SjI

Many Thanks
Support


Posted By: rich-erich
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 12:24pm
Hi

How do you code the link in html. This is not working. Thanks

<p><a href="!optin!">Test</a></p>


Posted By: rich-erich
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 1:00pm
The above code looks OK to me but when I do a test email nothing happens when I click on the link.


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 3:03pm
Hi,
To do a proper test where you test the links, create a mail shot to a single contact like in the screencast. The test email button does not activate the links as it's not sent to a real contact.

Many Thanks
Support


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 3:31pm
Thanks for all this Simon - a quick question though please, which you may have already addressed in your video but which I'm not completely clear about.

We have the means to send an opt in email, and the means to set EP=N for all non-opted in contacts, which is done in time for 25th. If a late responder clicks to opt in, will that contact automatically be re-set to EP=Y ? I'm guessing the answer is yes, but would you confirm please?




Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 4:24pm
Hi Phil,

Yes - the recipient can click on the link whenever and it will opt them in.

Many Thanks
Simon


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 4:32pm
Ok, thanks


Posted By: houseofplants
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 6:06pm
Would the 'email me when back in stock' feature still be OK after the 25th?


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 6:09pm
Hi,
Yes as the user is positively opting to receive that information from you.
Thanks
Support


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 16 May 2018 at 9:09am
Hi,
Also please note that we have many merchants not in the EU with only non-eu customers, so no functionality will be removed.
Many Thanks
Support


Posted By: rich-erich
Date Posted: 16 May 2018 at 12:14pm
If a customer opts in for marketing email and then later on orders something but doesn't bother to click on the box on the checkout (click to receive marketing email) will they then become opted out ?


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 16 May 2018 at 4:52pm
Hi,
Yes, that's right as you have to ask them if they want to opt in.

In that instance it's not ideal, because the cart does not know who the person is until they submit the checkout.

Ideally it would be good if they could detect that they were opted in and then not ask them, however that probably breaks the rules as well.

Many thanks
Support


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 16 May 2018 at 7:26pm
Huh? Surely not Simon. If consent is actively and freely given I can see nothing in the rules that says it needs to be reiterated with every order. Most customers would be forgiven for assuming that if they ticked the box last time they don't need to tick it again this time.

However, you are saying that if they don't they will be unwittingly unsubscribing.

Surely there must be a way to relate today's order with last week's consent. The way I interpret your answer above is that RC is perfectly capable of adding today's order to an existing contact's order history, but unable to relate it to their historic positive opt-in.


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 16 May 2018 at 7:30pm
Hi Phil,
It's a simple problem.
The cart does not know who they are on the checkout page as that's where the enter their details. At that point the cart has no idea af a previous or new customer is about to place an order.

Many Thanks
Simon


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 16 May 2018 at 7:35pm
But once they've placed the order, it knows exactly who they are. Once it does know, why does the EP need to change?


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 16 May 2018 at 7:39pm
Hi,

The question as to whether they want to opt in is on the checkout.
We could add an option to remove that, however, how would they then ever opt in?

You could have a separate email sign up on your site, however the checkout is the best way.

I'm not totally sure what the answer is actually. Ideally if they are already in the list then the option shouldn't show, but that's not possible.
I'll have to check the GDPR because it wouldn't surprise me if you have to ask them every time.

Many Thanks
Simon


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 16 May 2018 at 10:01pm
There is already a separate email sign-up on my site, but you're saying that if a signed up and voluntarily opted in prospect who knows they are already on the mailing list, doesn't bother to tick the opt-in box at the time of their first order, they are inadvertently unsubscribing themselves.

If, for the sake of argument you accept for the time being that opt-in re-iteration with every order is not a legal requirement, would the introduction of an extra page solve the problem?

basket > invoice/delivery details > confirm/edit all the details then we'll let you pay (checkout)

By the time they get to the third page, RC will know who they are. It is, after all, only their email address you need in order to identify them. Is it not then possible to present tailored tick boxes on the third page instead of on the same page as their personal details? Or if not, at least be able to relate an existing contact to the fact that they are already opted in.

A three page system is the way a lot of other carts operate, even before GDPR.

The thing is Simon, I am RC's greatest fan as you may already know. Your functionality is excellent, your support in the form of James and yourself is outstanding, and I could go on. But, in the format that you describe above, the inadvertent opt-out solution currently in place is, I'm sorry to have to tell you, quite probably a deal breaker for me, which with over 1000 products in my product manager is quite a statement to make and quite an undertaking to have to migrate. However, given that GDPR makes it difficult enough as it is, the inevitable result of the current a solution is a diminishing contact list, not a growing one, which even the most enticing and cunning wording for the opt-in box is never going to overcome.

Please, please, please find a solution for this.


Posted By: rich-erich
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:00am
This situation seems bonkers.

If I as a customer have opted in to receive marketing emails then I would expect this to be the case until I unsubscribe. This is very different from having to opt in every time I make an order.


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:12am
Hi,

I think the best answer might be just to word the checkbox differently "opt-in to our email list if you have not opted in already". - then we would have an option in the back end to ignore the checkbox if they have already opted in.

I have no idea whether that's allowed under GDPR as it gives no opportunity to opt out, I will leave that to you and your legal advisers to decide (who all seem to say different things).

Failing all that - take a look at some other websites and find one that works how you would like it to work and we will take a look and see if we can implement that.


Many Thanks

Simon



Posted By: rich-erich
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:15am
Simon, that sounds a good idea.

Also this may be relevant and think your video may be a bit misleading as it seems to suggest that to comply with GDPR we have to only contact customers that have opted in; so send them an optin in email and then remove anyone who has not opted in. However there is a soft optin:

The term ‘soft opt-in’ is sometimes used to describe the rule about existing customers. The idea is that if an individual bought something from you recently, gave you their details, and did not opt out of marketing messages, they are probably happy to receive marketing from you about similar products or services even if they haven’t specifically consented. However, you must have given them a clear chance to opt out – both when you first collected their details, and in every message you send.

The soft opt-in rule means you may be able to email or text your own customers, but it does not apply to prospective customers or new contacts (eg from bought-in lists). It also does not apply to non-commercial promotions (eg charity fundraising or political campaigning).


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:33am
If they opted in previously and they don't get de-listed for failing to tick the box a second time, that's all I'm asking. You have provided the functionality to evidence their opt in, and based on my understanding of GDPR I am more than happy to take responsibility.

As to how other carts do it, did you read my post from yesterday evening?


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:34am
Hi Rich,

If you decide to rely on soft opt-in then you could probably ignore everything about GDPR in RomanCart and carry on as you are. All other methods are opt in anyway.

Most of the information I have read say that that is no longer allowed, however there's plenty that says that it is!
It's also worth reading about 'Legitimate Interests' with regard to GDPR.

This is why it is very important for me to stress that it's up to you to implement GDPR how you want to as we don't give any legal advice. As a data processor we have out own obligations as laid out in our new terms and conditions and privacy policy.

Also note that we are simply providing the tools. As mentioned earlier we have many merchants not affected at all by GDPR so all the existing functionality is not going to change.

Many Thanks
Simon



Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:40am
Hi Phil,

An extra page would lead to less sales, so it's not something we'd do. RomanCart is all about trying to make as few steps to purchase as possible.
That's why the Braintree payment method is good as the card fields are on the checkout page, taking away even more steps and it sounds like we might have more similar methods to add in the future.

If you rely on soft opt-in as Rich Implies above then you could change nothing if that's what you and your legal advisors agree on.

Finally - the evidence for opt-in from RomanCart may not be good enough anyway - apparently you need a screenshot of the person opting in for admissible evidence - which is impossible to obtain. Some parts of this are ridiculous.

Many Thanks
Simon





Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:36am
I understand what you're saying Simon, and thanks for all you're doing. In the short term though, can you just clarify how the opt-in button will affect existing opted in contacts please.

My understanding is that now, (with suitable wording) an unticked box will no longer inadvertently unsubsribe if that person is already voluntarily opted in. Is that correct?


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 12:10pm
Hi,

Phil, I think you should take a look at the sort opt-in regs and 'Legitimate Interests' with regard to the checkbox on the checkout page.

Further to rich-erich's comments above, i'm not sure opt-in is needed on the checkout.


All the opt in regs seem to be more for the marketing lists you have where you don't have opt-in consent.

An unticked opt-in box will unsubscribe currently - this has not been changed and as above i'm not sure such a change is really necessary.

Many Thanks
Simon


Posted By: rich-erich
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 12:12pm
Getting confused now Simon.

If someone has already opted in I don't want it so if they susbequently checkout they become opted out if they don't opt in again. It doesn't make sense at all.


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 3:31pm
I've just spent a bit of time googling soft opt in, which I have to say I wasn't aware of until this conversation - thanks very much both.

In the technical side though, would simply copying and pasting the <a href="!delist!"> code from an RC template, work in emails sent independently of RC? I'm guessing probably not, in which case, in order to offer a clear opt-out option in all correspondence, can you give any advice as to how that can be automated?

I'm guessing the !delist! code would work on order confirmations and despatch notes, or anything else that is generated through RC. Would that be right?


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 3:35pm
Hi,

The !delist! tag will only work on RC generated emails.

Many Thanks
Simon


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 5:20pm
That said Simon, if I'm confident that soft opt in is a legitimate route to go down, and that I can comply with its requirements, should there not be a 4th option in website > marketing ?

Which would be not to have an email permission tick box at all.


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 5:35pm
Hi,
No - with soft opt-in you still need to offer them the opportunity to opt out at every contact.

Many Thanks
Simon


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 5:41pm
OK, got it, thanks. Well, I know which way I'll be going, that's for sure.


Posted By: rich-erich
Date Posted: 18 May 2018 at 10:26am
James

This is a very interesting article about the percent of people who opt in in relation to the configuration of the GDPR tick boxes.

There is a big reduction in number who agree to be opted in if there is just one tick box. EG Tick the box to accept emails. The current RC method.

The solution to get a much bigger uptake is to have two tick boxes. ie provide both a yes and no choice, with neither pre-checked.
Eg Would you like to receive emails : Yes   No

%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.zettasphere.com/gdpr-consent-opt-in-examples/

You will need to scroll down a quarter of the way and see heading "Opt-in consent example test results"

This does seem to be a much better approach - by doing so there was an increase in their test result from 48% optin to 77% .

Can you implement the two tick box method.

(Since implementing the current one tick box method on RC I am getting 17% who optin)



Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 18 May 2018 at 12:45pm
Interesting article.

If ticking one or other of those boxes was obligatory, would that not also overcome the "inadvertent opt out" we've been discussing?


Posted By: rich-erich
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 2:14pm
Simon, any thoughts on the last two comments. On the face of it this looks like the best way to go.


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 3:10pm
Hi,

Yes - however if you rely on soft opt-in then you wouldn't need to make any changes.

Many Thanks
Simon


Posted By: rich-erich
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 4:03pm
Simon, I was looking in to soft optin but have decided it's not the way to go for us; so anything you can do to make hard optin better (such as suggested) is important to us.


Posted By: EddieODG
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 4:26pm
My concern about having 2 boxes - "opt in" and "do not opt in", is that there will be customers trying to complete their transaction that, for one reason or another, miss the boxes, find they do not move forward in the purchase process, get frustrated, and give up.

I would rather the sale was a simple as possible, without a compulsory field to complete for future marketing purposes.

But our sales are generally one off. So the only future contact is for a review.


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 9:42pm
Simon, will the delist tag work when applied to tools/options/config_email > footer for dispatched email

or to cart invoices and quotes or paid confirmation emails?

Or is it just to scheduled emails through the CRM?

Just trying to comply with the soft opt in rules and the need to provide an opt out in all communications


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 9:53pm
Hi,

To marketing emails only.
You have a legal requirement to send an email receipt to the customer which is why that is not included.
Dispatch emails are also not included. They are not marketing emails and I have not seen a site which asks if you want a dispatch email or a confirmation email - although no doubt there probably are some.

Many Thanks
Simon


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 9:56pm
The point is though that soft opt in requires an opt out option with EVERY communication subsequent to being opted in. The moment of opt in is the moment the payment gateway button is clicked, therefore order/payment confirmations and despatch emails all count and need to feature an opt out option.


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 10:56pm
Simon - time is running away!

On the face of it there are two options available in order to comply with GDPR on Friday, depending in an individual's interpretation of the rules.

They are, for the sake of ease of description here, ether hard opt in or soft opt in.

Hard opt in requires the voluntary ticking of an opt in box, which on RC will inadvertently unsubscribe an already signed up contact if they fail to tick it on each and every purchase.

Soft opt in requires the ability to opt out to be provided in every single communication from the moment a contact is opted in, which without coding a not especially satisfactory mailto: subject= sort of hack, is not possible on any of the RC hosted confirmation/invoice emails other than a marketing newsletter.

Unless I have completely misunderstood your meaning or completely misinterpreted the law, which I do not believe is the case, I have to be frank and say that in my opinion, the current RC solutions for either route are seriously lacking.

Please will you now state unequivocally if you are proposing to implement any alternative solutions, or supplement/enhance those already in place.


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 23 May 2018 at 5:48am
Hi,
You have to send the customer transactional messages such as confirmation emails.

There's an interesting article at https://www.communicatorcorp.com/blog/transactional-emails-unsubscribes-best-practice-part-1" rel="nofollow - https://www.communicatorcorp.com/blog/transactional-emails-unsubscribes-best-practice-part-1

Which suggests putting an opt out link on those pages which takes them to an information page.

If using soft opt-in then you would have opt-out on the checkout.

Many Thanks
Simon


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 23 May 2018 at 8:47am
Article 22 of PECR states, in relation to electronic direct marketing, that soft opt in is acceptable under certain conditions, the one relevant to this discussion being that

"..... the recipient has been given the simple means of refusing the use of his contact details for the purposes of direct marketing at the time the details were originally collected, and, where he did not initially refuse the use of his details, at the time of each subsequent communication."

It does not say "at the time of each newsletter", it says "at the time of each subsequent communication" which I interpret to include transactional messages. I am not suggesting that the option to opt out of transactional messages is required, I am saying that transactional messages need to include a marketing list opt out.


Posted By: Support
Date Posted: 24 May 2018 at 9:20pm
Hi,

We will look into adding form code for opt out which you could put on your website somewhere.
Then you can link to it from wherever you like which should resolve this issue.

Many Thanks
Simon


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 24 May 2018 at 10:29pm
Sounds like a plan Simon. I was looking at trying to pre-populate a form with an email address via coding today, but it made my head spin.

Your suggestion would certainly solve the problem, and maintain professionalism on all our respective websites. Certainly a much better solution than a mailto link.


Posted By: ckart
Date Posted: 25 May 2018 at 11:02am
Yes please, it would be really useful to let users subscribe or unsubscribe through the website without having to find an Email.

-------------
www.nfed.co.uk
Connecting the central southern equestrian community since 1999


Posted By: Phil Dart
Date Posted: 01 June 2018 at 6:53pm
Any action on this Simon?



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